Saturday, October 14, 2006

烟雾问题的根本

烟雾问题的根本

最近闹得热轰轰的烟雾问题使这几乎被遗忘的课题重新浮上桌面。在我的记忆里,这烟雾问题早在八十年代初就一直困扰着我们。八十年代有一部电视连续剧叫“雾锁南洋”非常受欢迎,每当烟雾问题一而再的出现时,国人总会无奈的用“雾锁南洋”来自嘲一番。

一转眼二十多年,我们还是弥漫在“雾锁南洋”的无奈困境里,这到底是怎么一回事呢?难道在苏哈多强人统治时代无法解决的烟雾问题真的能在这时候迎刃而解吗?

如果我们要一劳永逸的解决这烟雾问题,我们就必须严正看待这烟雾问题的根本。首先我们必须对印尼这国家有所了解。印尼是一个巨大的发展中国家。虽然它有很多天然资源,但因为长期被贪腐政权所腐蚀而导致积弱多时。苏哈多政权虽然已经倒台,但他所建立的政治体系并没有完全随着瓦解。虽然历年的政改使得中央政府不得对人民厌倦贪腐的诉求有所回应,但地方政权并没跟进政改,贪腐的情况并没有显著的改善。在这种政治情况之下,对印尼中央政府再施多大的压力也是徒然。印尼中央政府可制定任何严刑峻法惩罚烧芭者,但如果地方政府为了各种利益而没有执行这法律的意愿的话,问题也就会继续存在。在一般情况之下,地方政府为了不影响它本身的税收而不敢得罪那些拥有大片土地的大企业。这也就是为什么烟雾问题这么多年来无法解决的根本原因。

烧芭种植是印尼农业悠久的文化。为何烧芭?烧芭在一个落后贫穷国家能为农业解决两个重要的困难:

1)以最省钱的方式把大块野林迅速清除掉
2)烧芭所残留的灰烬能变成自然的肥料

当然,大型的烧芭活动会带来严重的空气污染,使我们面对烟雾问题。每一片烧芭得来的农地只能让农民耕种几年。这是因为烧芭所得来的自然肥料经过这几年的耕种后便会耗尽。这也就是为什么烟雾问题通常是每隔几年便会严重的原因。

在我们城市人来看,烧芭就是空气污染的问题所在,但对许多印尼贫穷农民来说,烧芭就是他们经济来源的重要部分之一。没有烧芭他们便会失去廉价肥沃的农地。唯一能使这些农民停止烧芭种植活动就是帮助他们找寻廉价替代的种植法,或扶助与资助他们农作的需要。

当然,那些大企业的大型烧芭活动是我无法忍受的。他们为了节省费用而导致膨大的污染社会的代价。如果印尼地方政府对这些财雄势大的污染企业束手无策的话,亚细安诸国就必须介入制裁这些污染企业,坚决的不让这些企业立足于亚细安诸国的经济体系内。

最终的问题是,我们是否有这强烈的政治意愿来执行这样大规模的制裁政策?这样的制裁政策必然会使我们蒙受巨大的经济损失。我们的社会必须决定是否为了杜绝这一些污染企业而付出这经济损失的代价。我们必须衡量广大民众的健康利益是否比这些金钱的损失还重要。我们的政府是有这能力执行这样大规模的制裁政策的。这是因为政府掌握了政联公司控制,能有效立法和执行制裁这些污染企业和它们的任何附属公司的政策。

假若我们亚细安诸国只选择每几年当烟雾弥漫时才坐下来谈谈,例行公事般的大声嚷嚷,写些无法执行的协议书的话,那我们和我们的子孙们也只好永远承受烟雾侵袭的宿命。亚细安诸国对这烟雾问题谈也谈了少有十几年,但几乎一无所得,毫无建树。为什么?根据以往亚细安诸国所达成的“协议”,似乎没有谈及如何对那些污染公司采取集体的制裁行动,也只以非常消极的态度去制订“亚细安联合消防队”的协调条款。我认为这是各国缺乏根治烟雾污染决心的表现。亚细安诸国国民应该对他们各自的政府施压,促使它们拿出道德勇气和政治决心,果断、坚决的制定真正有效的协议,集体制裁那些污染公司,捍卫我们人民拥有清洁空气的权力,保障我们人民的健康!

与此同时,亚细安诸国也应积极的为印尼贫农寻找替代种植法,扶助他们以更有效率的方法提高农作收入,鼓励他们放弃烧芭种植法。只有这样双管齐下才能全面解决我们大家被烟雾危害的根源。

吴明盛

For the benefits of English readers, I have written the following summary of this article:

If we want to solve the haze problem, we must first understand three important factors:

1) Who are those who create the haze?
2) Why did they do that?
3) How could ASEAN countries do more than talk and coming up with ineffective resolutions?

First of all, we must understand the Indonesia political reality. Although Indonesia is a huge country with numerous natural resources, it continues to be a very poor country due to corrupt management by the govt.

Even when the Suharto adminstration was dismantled, the inherent system of corrupt political struggle still largely remain intact at the ground level. The central govt may heed calls to political reform to curb corruptions but those at the local govt may not change for the better. Thus, putting pressure on the Indonesia central govt is not very useful because even if its central govt could legislate stringent laws against pollution, these laws may not be executed by the local govt basically because they may not want to antagonize the large corporates that are involved in the use of fire to clear land, as they are the main source of tax money to these local govts. This is primarily the reason of the Haze problem.

Burning the forest to clear land for agriculture is a traditional practice in Indonesia. It solves two primary important problems for those poor farmers:

1) Provide a cheap way of clearing forested areas for farming
2) After burning the forest, those ashes left behind provides as free fertilizer.

Thus to city dwellers like us, we see the haze as pollution but to the farmers, it may be the necessary process for them to get cheap fertile land. If we want them to stop doing this, we must help them to find alternative ways to get fertile land for farming. A land cleared by burning down the forest will provide the poor farmers a few years of fertile land. After this, they will start burning and clearing other forested area again. Thus, you can see that the haze problem will worsen every few years.

What I could not tolerate is those rich corporates who use the same practice to save cost. By doing so, they created huge cost of pollution to us. If we are determined to stop them from doing such thing, there must be a concerted effort from ASEAN countries to saunction these companies of pollution and their affiliated companies. They must be prevented from accessing to ASEAN economies

Yes, we may suffer economically by cutting ties with these big companies but ultimately, the question is, are we politically determined enough to protect our people from the pollutino created by these companies? If there is no strong moral courage and political will, all talks will end up useless. These talks and agreement only aims to build a ASEAN FIRE FIGHTING FORCE and I think this is a very passive moves.

Citizens of ASEAN countries should put pressures on their govt to go for such drastic moves, make it into law that it is illegal to have dealing with companies of pollution. Singapore could effectively carry out such sanctions as it controls huge GLCs, but will there be strong political will to do so? Else not, we and our future generation will be destined to suffer from such pollution forever.

To tackle the problem of the haze, there must be strong political will from ALL sides. Indonesia is a weak developing country and I do not think its weak central govt could carry out any effective measures against those powerful countries. Only a concerted effort from each and every ASEAN countries to saunction them would create enough clout to punish these companies of pollution.

And only couple with active measures to seek alternative agriculture methodologies for the poor farmers, we could solve the haze problem permanently.

This is the gist of my Chinese posting.

Goh Meng Seng

127 comments:

Anonymous said...

why you talk so much? what has the WP done for the haze? talk cock sing song only, fat ass!

Anonymous said...

Mr Goh out to demonstrate his linguistic ability. Naturally from HCJC, very gd in chinese, hope to come across as bilingual, bi cultural but sorry to say rejected by voters.

Fed up said...

Please do not use personal attack when commenting on blogs. This is just common courtesy.

Anonymous said...

WP is keener to launch personal attacks.

Anonymous said...

Mr Goh's fame has spread even to Young PAP forum. Now even the PAP knows he calls them DOGS...

Mr Peeved said...

Dear Meng Seng,

What is happening???

Saw this on Young PAP forum:

WP members being complained on internet forum
9 Joecole 202 Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:44 am
Joecole

How did you get into such a mess on an internet forum? As a member of the CEC, I expect you to be smarter, how can you be upstaged by an anonymous forumer?? Please ask the WP Youth to stop sending clones to forums, they have been exposed already.

Anonymous said...

Walau in forums everybody are using nicks.

Even those who are not in wp can say they are from wp. Everybody can be anybody, it is rather stupid to judge a party thru posting in internet forums

Anonymous said...

But the nick "Goh Meng Seng" did admit he is Mr Goh of WP all along and he has been in the forum for 2 years, surely can't be a fraud?

Anonymous said...

Correct, anybody can claim to be WP supporter and post on internet.

But if there is damaging done on WP, what must WP do? leave it alone? let the damaging continue ?

Why nobody want to claim to be PAP supporter and cause damgage to PAP ?

Anonymous said...

Mr Goh is trying to teach the govt what to do, in the hope tht the people will find his ways better and vote him in. This is a exercise in preparation so tht once in power they know what to do. But Goh failed to realise their plans are no good, in fact oppotunistic which can be seen through by all S'poreans.

Anonymous said...

.....just wonder if wp talk cock sing song then wat about our goverment....has it solved the problem....

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr Goh,

Somebody posted your quarrel with a forumer on Sammyboy on the Young PAP forum. I voted for your team during the last GE, but I will withdraw my support of you now. I am disgusted at your arrogance and stuck-up attitude. As a politician aspiring to serve the people, you must first be humble and patient. Even the PAP makes an effort to pretend to be humble. Stop showing off your linguistic ability here. You can be the best writer in Singapore, but without basic courtesy and humility, you are nothing.

Ronaldo said...

hey dude, initially I thought WP is opportunistic too till I read this article at:

http://www.mediawatchsg.blogspot.com

Read it and you will see the hidden meaning behind the ST report

Anonymous said...

Meng Seng, please resign from the CEC, you have brought us shame!

Anonymous said...

Defining features of GMS:

1. Arrogant, likes to show off and thinks he is always correct.

2. Condescending: talk down to people, as if he is the master.

3. Petty: cannot tahan criticism, and resort to threats of lawsuit to win arguments.

4. Scheming: likes to distort works, put words in mouth of others and wriggle away.

5. Vulgar: throw taunts and insults at those who defeats him in a debate.

6. Self-importance: thinks he is some bloody big ass to participate in a GE.

7. Coward: when challenge to provide evidence, he crawls away like a dog.

8. Idiotic: never realize he is not meant for politics.

Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...

Defining features of GMS:"

i can't believe u cld get thru spelling "condescending" n "participate" correct only to typo on who the points apply to. only 3 letters and u cld get 2 wrong. wat a retard.

Anonymous said...

Wonder why Goh has not responded to any of these. It further shows he's such a person.

sapmme said...

there seem to be 1 x running dog from the pappy shit goverment trolling for comments here.
I hope nobody and especially not GMS will mistake that singular crazed dog-son of gay mule for the majority of the readers here.

keep on writing GMS!

as for that pappy troll son... i hope your remaining parent get cancer and die....

Anonymous said...

yawn.....dog calling who?

Anonymous said...

Mr goh
I think you should just leave politics.
The Workers' Party will be a better place without you.
Be a slob elsewhere.
GET LOST!!!

Anonymous said...

IF THERE ARE SUCH NUTS IN THE WP CEC,
I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR THEM!
WHAT WOULD THE REST OF THE PARTY BE LIKE?
WAKE UP MR LOW AND SYLVIA LIM AND CLEAR THE "TRASH" IN YOU CEC!

Anonymous said...

Haha...Mr Goh, where are you? Haven't seen you in Young PAP forum for a long time. Thought you like to bark alot here, it's kinda quiet without your constant barking. Stick to repair PCs lah, politics is not for you.

Anonymous said...

I guess the big fat dog of this blog is too tired to reply.
22 comments without reply?
dumb getting dumber?

Anonymous said...

The quality of the flames here is so pathetic,no wonder GMS don't bother to reply.

Anonymous said...

Heard that GMS's account in Sammyboy has been inactivated as he sends multiple clones there with fake email accounts. Is it true, Goh Meng Seng?

Anonymous said...

GMS didn't reply because he knows it is the absolute truth. GMS sucks big time!

Anonymous said...

2nd poster...Wolong123 again! Working hard eh, Joseph Goebbels of the Singapore blogosphere? Both in Sammyboy and on Mr Goh's site...

Anonymous said...

Heard somebody has emailed the entire WP CEC to complain about WP members' behavior on the internet. These WP forumers are really notti!

Curious Blogger said...

I am not a supporter of WP, but will always read whatever they wrote on the internet.

You will ask why? i m so free? my reason is simple one.

So that I will vote for other parties and knowing I have already give WP a chance on the internet to proof their worth.

Anonymous said...

Goh Meng Seng has gambled and lost big, both online and offline.

Anonymous said...

well obviously gms is actually a pappy in disguise!
who else would love to destroy the WP baru so much?

Anonymous said...

GMS have really gone from being dumb (up there) to being dumb (speaking) too?

Megson said...

Heard GMS was formerly from Young PAP during his NUS days, anybody knows about it? Apparently he was damned pissed that he was not elected to the youth council and quit PAP out of fury. One of his peers is now a PAP MP. Not surprising, WP is a dumping ground for PAP rejects like Chia Ti Lik. They must have some integrity problems to be sacked from the PAP.

Anonymous said...

One thing for sure, PMonkey Andrew was from the PAP. He is a PAP mole, always stirring up shit between WP and SDP supporters on the net.

Anonymous said...

GOH MENG SENG, Why no reply from all these comments??? Busy doing groundwork at Aljunied or just afraid to speak out? Hahahaha...

mole said...

To the Anonymous who already try to post very hardworking,

Look!
You posted how many comments to here ONLY?
Don't forget that your are waiting for the ruling party to rotten then get great benefit from it.
You must continue to flatter the Ruling Party, especially the high concentration of power, because it would make RP rotten faster.

AP want sufficient checks and balances in the system to prevent the RP rotten, it would break our dream,
you must continue to pretend RP or AP supporters and quickly post more comments to destroy AP image,
let the silly 66.6% believe that APs are so bad, and make the RP and AP supporters hate each other more,
then our job will be more easy. If you think you already try your best then let me know, I will be your alternative.

Try to work hard, wait until RP and AP all DIE, then sg would be our heaven, then we Mole Party can ha ha ha ha ha......

Anonymous said...

I rather spoil my vote than voting a person like GMS.

Anonymous said...

This fatty always want attention, now all the internet forums know his BIG NAME, he goes hiding into his shell.

phui my saliva at him, phui! phui! phui!

Anonymous said...

What can a true bum be doing these days?
Hide at home and shake his bottom of course!

Anonymous said...

Who is talking cock now?

If you say GMS is talking cock then I can tell you MBT also talking cock.

Upgrading - MBT say upgrading will be base on the age of the estate.
Question : which estate is older - Tampines or Simei?
Go take a look at Simei - all block upgraded to have all floor lifting landing.
Look at Tampines - Old block more than 20 years old not upgraded yet.
Pity those who vote for him = I am one of those and still asking why?????

laughing at GMS said...

Nice try Meng Seng, for putting urself as anonymous.. LMAO~!

Anonymous said...

Mr GMS, if you are worthy any pinch of salt,
Come out and give your best reply and prove us wrong if you can!
Scared righz?

Anonymous said...

Mr.Goh, pardon me for being blunt, I think you should move on. There does not seem to be any support for you. Your blog has more messages opposing you than I have ever read before. Then I came to know you are from the opposition. This is a very bad signal. It seems your party is also not getting any support from the comments. Is that because of your blog ? You got to have the common touch to make it in politics. Your article does not reflect that. It only showed the anxiety to display your intellectual argument which, frankly, I found to have many gaps.

Gah_Men_Sent said...

Who says I never reply? Din you read my clones' defence? I have already sent many clones to SBF, Young PAP forum and SG forum to defend myself. Nobody wanna repair PC, nothing to at home lah except change my daughter's pampers...

Anonymous said...

Hi Meng Seng

Please continue writing. You can't please everyone and there will bound to have setbacks. Ignore those who try to discourage you.

The journey is long and enduring but you have many friends supporting you.

Those who support the PAP will have to bear with the Pay And Pay regime in silence. ERP, transport, electricity all go up despite oil prices coming down etc. They will have live with high Ministers pay and ever widening rich and poor divide. They will have to live with social problems as a result of the casinos that will be built here.

This is a pityful generation.


Warmest regards

Gah_Man_Sent said...

I warn you all dun play play with me. I got ECONS HONORS, know how to reepair PCs, can track your IPs down and SUE till you PANTS down!

WP got a lot of LAWYERS in our CEC, not happy see you in COURT!

Anonymous said...

meng seng replying to meng seng? self-consolation? hahaha....
GMS, you are DAMNED pathetic!

Anonymous said...

Well 40+ comments and counting against the same persons speak volumes.
enough said

WP_Best said...

Must be those PAP DOGS! To PAP members who come here to create trouble, I, Richard Lim from WP Youth, call you DOGS, what can you do to me?

Anonymous said...

Read this on Young PAP forum:

http://www.youngpap.org.sg/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=11496

Did some moron really lodge complaint to the CEC? GMS, you got us into deep shit now! Pls ask WP Youth to stop sending clones to internet forums, they are disgracing our good name there!

Goh Meng Seng said...

Dear All,

I am waiting for spammers to give their "best" here but apparently, they ran out fire.

Maybe many of you may wonder why I did not reply nor delete any of these spammers' comments here but I think it is better to let these as a record of how desparate these spammers are in wanting to achieve their agenda.

They have tried in Sammyboy but I guess when they find it beginning to backfire, they chose to do it here in my blog.

Granted that they have a job to do, I would like to see how well they "managed" the internet. Not surprising, misinformation and untrue assertions were spewed all over the place. For simple fact like whether I "threaten" to sue Zenra was totally distorted. Those who are reading Sammyboy knows that I have reiterated that I am not going to sue him but for the sake of clarity in showing him that what he has said are defamatory, they would just jump into it.

Surface to say, it seems to me that those "clones" were not from WP at all, some maybe individuals not related to WP and some pretends to be WP supporters or members, like the last anonymous poster who writes as if he /she is a WP member!

Granted that deception is part and parcel of the "internet", but I think that's cheap shots! ;)

It is interesting for me to see that how such "games" are played. Deception, imposter, rumouring (I am from PAP before? hahaha!) etc etc.

I will see how far these people could go before I dedicate an article on this one! ;)

Goh Meng Seng

Anonymous said...

HAHHAHHAH. GMS, nice try.

Anonymous said...

Since Goh admitted to misinformaton and untrue assertions, then should agree to banned podcasts etc. This only shows tht when its WP then they r prepared to......

Anonymous said...

if Zenra words r defamatory why dont sue? If LKY indeed defame James Gomez, why dont sue? What is tht liar afraid of? lol

Anonymous said...

Who's Richard LIm? Puppy from WP? lol

Anonymous said...

wolong123...Joseph Goebbels of the Singapore blogosphere...please stop bothering Mr Goh.

Anonymous said...

Mr Goh, the complaint letter about you have been circulating around NYP too, soon you will become as famous as our Tammy! LOL

Anonymous said...

Oh GMS, we are so desperate to read your article. Why you still subscribe to your dumb conspiracy theory that PAP has sent secret agents to spam you? Why not admit you are unpopular and hated?

Nobody in SBF cares about you, you are just a coward not to return knowing your name now stinks till the high heavens. Every citizen of Singapore has the right to expose such a charlatan like you.

FYI, I have forwarded the complaint letter to my class in NTU and soon the entire NTU will know what kind of goon you are! Don't believe, let's wait and see.

sister iris said...

gms, i think these critics are just too disappointing - basically eager to go all the way out to destroy u in politics but hvn't done enough research in yr character and history. otherwise won't use these sorts of tactics which usu work on others but you (for supporters who know gms well from his postings over the yrs or thru other channels will agree)

anyway u hv our support. but beware it's kinda obvious that yr enemies are not only from the RP supporters but also yr own party ... so desparate to kick u out of the cec till sowing seeds of suspicion and then divide ...

for those who know what i'm talking about - hehehe u hv already exposed yr tail

Andy Pang said...

GMS has disgraced himself utterly in cyberspace, we cannot afford to have him in the CEC, he will be a liability.

There are many potential leaders in the WP Youth, like me and we are more than capable to leading the party forward.

I don't understand if Wai Leng and Yaw can be elected to the CEC, why can't me? I simply cannot take this lying down.

Anonymous said...

Sigh... Mr Goh my heart goes out to you.

I have no party affiliations however, seeing this debacle is really a step back from what could have been after GE 2006.

People could have choose to play a gentlemen's game, instead they have decided act like rouges. Cyber terrorist. I do not know who is making these allegations, what I do know though, is that alot of those comments are fallaciously poisoning the well, blackening your name without a case.

However, if we could take a political lesson out of this, its that many people in do not make informed decisons but split second choices. Reputation is vital to the party. Maybe an important question to ask is how does the WP protect this reputation that it has aqquired until the next GE to help it improve?

The WP has successfully positioned itself as the next to succeed. As in any organisation there will be dissent. Can't tell if those people making noise are true WP members, but one thing I do know is this. Its not always whether one is more qualified than the other, its about how loyal one is to his/her party. Being smart and disciplined enough to toe the party line is more important than being capable but rebellious.

People might choose to label me as the "30%" (Like a certain P65 MP said in an interview), this may shock you, but I am not.

I'm just someone who wishes for politics to be a gentlemenly business.

Anonymous said...

hey dude, politics is dirty, that is a fact, the only difference is who play the game better.

GMS is a dirty scum, you should read what he post in SBF and young PAP forum.

He is well known for being petty and abusive, don't believe check out his threads. If he can't even deal with a few poly students, how can he debate on national issues in Parliament.

It's better for him and for Singaporeans he quit politics now rather than later when irreversible damage has been done.

OnePerson said...

The other version I heard is that GMS is a PAP spy sent to infiltrate WP. His aim is to split WP, force LTK to step down and take over WP. Then, PAP will allow him to win in HG and WP will become a "allied opposition". In this way, Singapore is still a democracy while the "opposition" remained control by the PAP.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youngpap.org.sg/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=11417&start=50

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:37 pm

turtle qin said...

hmmmm...very imaginative for most of the accusations against mr goh here. just wonder why he's worth so much attention/attack. could be someone qualified or considered a potential threat to pap. if he's that lousy a politician, why u all wasting time to discuss and care about this man at all?

Anonymous said...

u r a real turtle, do you have brains at all? Who is GMS compared to LTK, CST, CSJ, Sylvia or even Perry?

He is being attacked by ordinary citizens who hate his attitude, not the PAP who can't be bothered with a small-time political opportunist like him. Even within WP Youth, many of us dislike him, he should do some serious reflection why this is so.

Zenra2004 said...

If these anti-WP folks are serious, come up with their real names. One long list of anonymous and they expect a reply from GMS? What a joke! No one even knows if they are from a computer virus!

GMS_EXPOSED said...

Read this mail forwarded by a senior WP member:

Dear honored members of the WP CEC,

My name is XXX and I live in Hougang Ave 1.

I am currently a third year electrical engineering student at Singapore Polytechnic. I am not a member of the WP, but have taken part in your outreach programmes.

My initial impression of your party is good, I think the WP has a promising future.

However, I was very disappointed with the behavior and attitude of some WP members on the Sammyboy internet forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/messages/?msg=120479.1 ). Of course, anybody can claim to be a WP member. There are two confirmed members I know who use the nick "Goh Meng Seng" (Goh Meng Seng himself) and "PMonkey" (Andrew)

The rest of WP members (identities not confirmed) are jacy, sarek_home, lockeliberal, Melvin_Tan, avantas.

I do not know what "Cyberstrategy" your party have, but obviously it is pissing many people off. These WP members are very argumentative and go around sowing discord between WP and SDP supporters by ridiculing SDP and Dr Chee. Andrew also post porn pictures of naked women on the forum and was attacked by many forumers as a result.

They attack forumers who do not agree with them, calling them names like PAP dogs, moles, quacks etc. Melvin Tan claims he has reported to the Police one forumer who "harrass" him.

Goh Meng Seng threatened to sue a forumer (Zenra2003) for implying he visit SG gals forum and call a forumer "scheming" and "lack of intergrity" after losing an argument. I am appalled that a person of such narrow-mindness can represent WP in the recent GE.

Now knowing they are unpopular, they resort sending clones to influence perception, but many of us are aware of it and ignore them. It appears that WP is not able to reach out to forumers due to ungentlemanly and lousy behavior of their members.

There was even a thread on the Young PAP forum entitled "WP members being complained on internet forums" and it is becoming a hit among PAP members.

http://www.youngpap.org.sg/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=11417

I believe you have already received feedback on this, just writing to register my unhappiness. I feel WP should stop sending its members to internet forums for the time-being. We are all very sick and tired of them.

They are welcome to join our discussions, but please be humble, civil and courteous. Calling people names and threatening to sue their critics seem similar to what the PAP is using. If the WP baru (what we call them) continue to taint WP's reputation on the internet, I'm afraid it will alienate many young people like me.

I hope these are only a few bad eggs in the WP and do not represent your party's official view. Please do something to control your party's members.


XXX

Anonymous said...

Is not the reason very obvious?
Cant EVERYONE see the urgent need to get rid of a dirt scum???!!!!???
Long Live the WP

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
wolong123...Joseph Goebbels of the Singapore blogosphere...please stop bothering Mr Goh.
12:19 AM "

Don't ask me to stop!
I not only want to be the first poster, but also want to be the last poster.

I would stare at my PC screen 24 hrs/day incase gms next time blog at mid night and he himself post the first comment.

I will not goto sleep and makan, I will bring my laptop together with me when I goto toilet.

Ha ha ha .....

Anonymous said...

Hahahaha... GMS can go sux his cock!

KHC said...

Hi GMS

It is encouraging to know that you speak your mind on issues that concerned Singaporeans.

I had very much wanted to see blogs of other politicians share more insights, but so far the p65ers and BG Yeo's blogs have been disappointing.

As with the GE2006 elections, the bread and butter issues were never addressed faced on.

We don't need million-dollar ministers to tell us (or justify) that rising oil prices will result in rising costs - could it be otherwise? They are being paid to solve problems, if oil prices goes up, it's our ministers job to contain the increase or even lower the impact for all Singaporeans, not just the lowest income.

Hip-hopping post-65 MPs will be more welcomed if they can find ways to help the majority of the Singapores to manage healthcare costs (Medishield premiums are going to increase again), manage transportation costs, increase opportunities for the elderly folks, address the issue of declining birth rates, lesser working opportunities for locals due to foreign imports. These are not new issues and more can be done.

At least you dare to speak out. I wish there were more people who can speak out and point out many flaws in the policies of the government.

A good example is this young lady: http://i-speak.blogdrive.com

and of course mr. brown (poor fella got heavily criticised for saying things close to our hearts, which were never addressed by PAP).

Whoever is reading this blog, I suggest that please channel your negativity to more positive areas.

By all means, say what you say and if that can help bring down cost of living in Singapore and allow the middle and lower class to have a breathing space, then it's good.

I don't know how long we must suffer in silence under the Pay and Pay system . I don't supposed you guys know that Singapore is one of the very few country that tags it's transportation costs to oil prices (on the rising portion) only.

The rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer (by 20%!). Do you like being tied down to the CPF system or enslaved to the housing loan debts? And we are still fighting amongst ourselves.


Best regards

Andrew said...

To the anonymous above,

You are seriously misinformed.

A politician who truly cares for the people will not spend time writing long essays here and threatening to sue ordinary netizens on forums.

A person's character and integrity is of utmost importance. If you read the threads posted by GMS in SBF, you will be very disappointed by his attitude and mindset.

Such a petty, narrow-minded and scheming person cannot be allowed to become a MP and ruin the constituency he is in.

It is a duty of all Singaporeans to expose this fraudster and kick him out of politics ASAP!

JJB said...

Andrew, you are absolutely right.

The Enlightened said...

Instead of being brainwashed by the numerous negative comments on GMS, guess netizens with a clear mind can judge for themselves what kind of a person GMS is.

Spend some time going through his insightful essays which were written with much empathy and a warm heart. He dares to point out the flaws of the existing system though his views may sometimes sound unpopular among the more conservative readers. More importantly GMS offers alternative solutions which sound logical, and can be feasible if given a chance to be adopted.

It seems that GMS doesn't bother to respond to many of the baseless accusations and personal attacks here. Quite funny that this column has become a debating platform between his adversaries and supporters. For a serious politician, it's essential for him to stick to his own principles and have a strong will to put up with (or simply ignore) "distractions". He should focus on his groundwork in his party and target constituency. Ultimately what we voters are looking for is someone who is truthful and capable in serving the people and offering solutions to our problems.

As a supporter of the WP myself, I'm glad that GMS is with your party. Please keep this asset and not be easily divided by people with hidden agendas.

Best wishes

Anonymous said...

hey pple, pls stop attacking Mr Goh now. Din you read in the ST today, WP will not hesitate to call police or sue if they not happy.

Anonymous said...

What a wrong move by WP! I'm really disappointed by Perry Tong's action? Don't he have better things to do? He thinks SPF will waste time on such a petty thing? So what if the culprit is caught and punished? It will reflect very very badly on the WP. Even the PAP don't resort to filing police reports to silence their impersonators on internet forums.

Anonymous said...

Perry wanna get some free publicity what, otherwise nobody knows who he is. Now all my family and friends know he is WP youth boss liao, but they don't think too highly of him. *shake head*

Anonymous said...

Well, we all know who should be sued. The ones who call other people dogs in public!

Anonymous said...

GMS is the one.

Anonymous said...

Well done, Mr Goh! Mr LTK must be proud of you! Your "cyberstrategy" is so successful that the whole of Singapore know how petty you are!

All my friends are laughing our heads off after reading your interview in TODAY about "I stop talking to a forumer because he has an AGENDA"

Hahaha....you sound like a child who just lost a chess game, nobody ask you to go to sammyboy forum wat and nobody ask to you to talk to them. You are opening your big fat mouth willingly, how can blame others?

Anonymous said...

Serious things like attendign to Aljunied residents he does only once in 5 yrs. But making hell of noise here he odes everyday.

Pery Lim said...

PAP spend time to FIX opposition.
Opposition lan lan gotta spend time to FIX ordinary Singaporeans.

Shame on you WP!!! Only talk talk to oppose PAP, in the end still go to Police to fix Singaporeans!!!

Anonymous said...

When PAP tekan Gomez over a trivial affair, people think they are damned petty. Now WP tekan a Singaporean over nothing, what will people think???

Can Perry show proof his email was used to log into SBF? He doesn't know all you need is a nick and password and you can use a fake email to register!

Show he never visit internet forums, how to connect with us??

Anonymous said...

identity theft is a very very serious issue and i fully support him in reporting it to the proper authorities.

Anonymous said...

For the sake of WP, GMS just keep your huge mouth SHUT!
We do not need your help to get more bad news.

Anonymous said...

what identity theft? what so unique about Perry Tong? How many Perry Tongs are there in Sg? I am a network engineer and I tell you in an open source like Delphi whose server is in USA, it will take years to trace the IP and even if the IP is found, if the system is dynamic, you can never find out who make the posting. You think SPF will waste time on this? They will just say they have taken note of it. My dog was bitten by another dog, I can also make a polcie report. WP people are really childish, the more you defend Perry, the more stupid you appear to be!

Anonymous said...

Found his blog at last!

http://perrytong.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Anyone who cannot see the seriousness of the issue is a retard practicing double standards. If identity theft is not serious, then why nobody dare to impersonate LKY or LHL?

Anonymous said...

what theft? the nick is Perry_Tong what, see the underscore? Don't understand the term parody? And Perry isn't exactly well known, there are so many Perry Tongs in SG. WP really petty, got nothing better to do.

Anonymous said...

Dear CEC members of the WP
Please stop talking rot on the internet.
You will only give us a bad name.
May even cause you to lose your deposit the next election.
Many people have lost blood, sweat and tears to build good name of the WP.
Please stop spoiling it.
How is you getting whack on internet going to help WP?
Sincere Yours
Member of WP youth

Anonymous said...

Meng Seng
Am very disappointed with the name calling you have resorted to.
I have always supported the WP.
BUT i will NEVER condone or support anyone who calls other people names,
What more a CEC member who is election trained?
I suggest you be man enough to apologise to the public.
If not, no one in the right mind may support you again.

Anonymous said...

To the above 2 anonymous:

Show us proof that you are from WP Youth. WP has the right to report to the police for impersonating their members. It can even sue you for harrassment.

If GMS has disgraced WP on internet, Perry Tong is even worse!

He actually make police report over nothing and now we get wacked in the press.

Now the culprit has apologized, Mr Perry should be gentlemanly enough to close the case and move on.

Never heard of police charging somebody for making non-malicious statements on an internet forum hosted in USA.

Pls, is there anybody sensible in the WP CEC??? Just issue a press release to close the episode once and for all. I can't bear to read what the papers will write about WP if more shit is uncovered.

Anonymous said...

Perry Tong reported to the police in order to nip the problem in the bud. As the impersonator was obviously not using the nick just for fun, if he wasn't stopped, he would be fully capable of inflicting real damage to Perry's reputation later if he so chooses.

Anonymous said...

Like wise oppdun defame for fun, u hv to nip it in the bud or else......

Anonymous said...

Nobody knows who Perry Tong was except the WP jokers, so where is the impersonation? What you say is absolute bullshit. I don't see any malice or defamation in the posts.

If Petty Tong did not kick up a fuss, nobody will notice in it. In the law, your argument doesn't hold at all. Din Sylvia or Chia T L tell Perry he has no case at all?

Perry just want some cheap publicity. It's good that Singaporeans now know what kind of party WP is. I will like to see Perry sue the imposter in court.

However, more likely Perry will be charged by the Police for making a false report and counter-sued by the imposter for libel by making false accusations.

LTK says WP is not a suing party. What cock is this? WP also likes to sue, except it only knows how to bully citizens. Shame on you!

Petty Tong said...

To be fair, Mr Petty Tong has the right to protect himself. But surely making a report to Delphi to stop the nick and making an announcement on the WP website is enough?

Now the imposter has apologized in public, Mr Petty tong should be magnanimous enough to forgive and forget.

To continue using precious state resources to pursue his own personal agenda is really too much.

Given the negative publicity surrounding WP over this saga, Petty Tong should cut losses by bringing this episode to a closure.

Otherwise the damage to WP's credibility will be even greater.

Anonymous said...

I think Perry Tong and GMS should just shut their mouths up for good.
Enough said..

Anonymous said...

Perry Tong and Goh Meng Seng have consistently been making good logical points that hit home and scare their opponents into flaming their blogs.

Anonymous said...

Best part of the story perry tong loved to teach scuba dviing instead of attendign to residents of esat cost GRC.

Anonymous said...

Agreeed.How long ago have we not seen Mr Tong and co doing his rounds?

Anonymous said...

Those who claimed to be WP members and posted some negative comments are definately not WP members. WP menbers will NEVER NEVER do such things. WP members under the leadership of LTK knows what is right and what is wrong.

Ask any members from any parties "who will write and give negatives remarks" about its own party.

DON'T ACT STUPID AND STOP TALKING COCK UNLESS YOU DARE OWN UP AT WP OFFICE AND QUIT FROM THERE = YOU DON'T DESERVED TO BE IN THE PARTY.

visitor 62911 said...

Don't worry!
Nobody will belive that those negative comments of WP are posted by WP members.

I suggest Mr Goh say thank you to those fake WP members because they are so hard working to post more than 100 comments here. This blog seems never have so many comments.

Anonymous said...

I live in East Coast GRC and always have a ready smile for Perry whenever I see him. Everyone I know living in East Coast GRC also say he is a good chap.

Anonymous said...

Everyone also know perry tong would rather coach sexy girls scuba diving than attending to residents of east coast.

Anonymous said...

Everyone in East Coast? You must know very few people.
If not how he lose so badly?

Anonymous said...

I can tell you the 1 reason WP no aljunied today- GMS

Anonymous said...

I am also resident of EastCoast GRC and can say that Perry Tong is popular with many ppl here, there is no doubt.

Anonymous said...

For those who only know how to passed bad comments and remarks, better go and eat shit.
Did Perry Tong did any harm to you?
Did Perry Tong offended you?
Are you man enough to stand up as tall as Perry Tong to stand as a candidate for EC GRC?
Did any of those shit eater passing bad comments and remarks dare show your faces and post comments and remarks?

You all go eat shits la.....if don't have good argument, just don't post any remarks and comments for the sake of posting.

Perry & GMS, I will see you at WP office and tell me what I can contribute and show my face in public unlike those who dare not show their face but post uneducated remarks and comments.

Anonymous said...

You so smart?
Why dont use your real name, IC no and email address here? y still anon??
Did anyone pay you to write that crap?

Anonymous said...

The number of message here only show people still care WP.
Dont want WP die because of some no brain people

job seeker said...

"The number of new jobs created this year looks set to hit a record high." ?

It included the job post uneducated remarks and comments
here?

brain said...

WP would not die forever if
only have no brain posters posting uneducated remarks and comments
here.

Anonymous said...

Apologies for using comments.

Possible news on why Today editor was sacked:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/messages?msg=122550.1

Anonymous said...

To shit eater, those have brain does not need to get paid to write but those shit eater posting bad comments and remarks are trouble maker. The question is did GMS and PT do any harm to your rice bowl, your family daily lifes??????

When you post..."You so smart?
Why dont use your real name, IC no and email address here? y still anon??
Did anyone pay you to write that crap?"

and what support do I have even i sign in anonymous?


1) The number of message here only show people still care WP.
Dont want WP die because of some no brain people


2)"The number of new jobs created this year looks set to hit a record high." ?

It included the job post uneducated remarks and comments
here?

3)WP would not die forever if
only have no brain posters posting uneducated remarks and comments
here.

Go to one corner and thinks about it???? What harm has GMS and PT did to you, mr shit eater.

Anonymous said...

You better watch your mouth.
Just like Mr GMS. You his clone?
Calling people names will only get you sued till your pants dropped.

reader said...

To Anonymous who posted at 9:45 AM,

**To shit eater, those have brain does not need to get paid to write but those shit eater posting bad comments and remarks are trouble maker. The question is did GMS and PT do any harm to your rice bowl, your family daily lifes??????**

-- This one look like pro GMS, am I correct? But may I know who is PT?


**1) The number of message here only show people still care WP.
Dont want WP die because of some no brain people **

-- this one look like anti GMS, right?


**2)"The number of new jobs created this year looks set to hit a record high." ?
It included the job post uneducated remarks and comments here? **

--this one look like laughing at the Anonymous who always posted bad comments here, am i gussing wrongly?


**3)WP would not die forever if only have no brain posters posting uneducated remarks and comments here. **

-- this one look like saying that the bad comments poster no standard, my guessing right or wrong?


**1) The number of message here only show people still care WP. Dont want WP die because of some no brain people **

seems reply to

**I suggest Mr Goh say thank you to those fake WP members because they are so hard working to post more than 100 comments here. This blog seems never have so many comments.**

I guess Anonymous comment that GMS no brain so he said **Dont want WP die because of some no brain people **.

Of course i don't think GMS no brain, his brain actually bigger than many singaporeans so he knows how to think and so i always come here to read his blog.

Kandasamy said...

I don't understand why you guys waste time flaming WP here. PT and GMS will probably not take part in the next GE, WP also closing shop soon. Luckily we still have SDA around who never got such disgraceful people like WP.

Long live Mr CST! Long live SDA!

WP: pls go and eat shit, you are disgracing JBJ, no balls to fight PAP, only know how to report police over your own supporter, what a crybaby!

SDA supporter said...

Please, don't pretend SDA supporter, because your comments really no standard,
it would disgrace SDA if pple really believe that you are SDA supporter.
Please..., SDA never got such disgraceful supporter like you.

Anonymous said...

SDA or WP all the same = thrash!
Let us all support PM Lee for more good years ahead!

Anonymous said...

How can Perry Tong be Youth Chief when he is so petty? I wonder how the youth will think of WP after this silly police report thingy. It is obvious Ken Kwek is protraying WP in a negative manner.

After so long, there is still no reply from WP. So who is lying? The imposter or Perry?

Was your email really hacked and used ? Please clarify things

Disillusioned ex-WP supporter

Anonymous said...

Instead of wasting time sending clones here n to internet forums, you should ask LTK and SL to speak on the Shin corp deal in Parliament!

It is so strange that the issue most citizens are interested in is not asked by the opposition MPs which is their duty to do so, otherwise why do we vote them in anyway???

Anonymous said...

Was elated to read about your resignation in the papers.
WP should pop the champagne over this.
Better throw out rotten apples before the rest grow mould.yeah!

Anonymous said...

Dear All,

I am waiting for spammers to give their "best" here but apparently, they ran out fire.

Maybe many of you may wonder why I did not reply nor delete any of these spammers' comments here but I think it is better to let these as a record of how desparate these spammers are in wanting to achieve their agenda.

They have tried in Sammyboy but I guess when they find it beginning to backfire, they chose to do it here in my blog.

Granted that they have a job to do, I would like to see how well they "managed" the internet. Not surprising, misinformation and untrue assertions were spewed all over the place. For simple fact like whether I "threaten" to sue Zenra was totally distorted. Those who are reading Sammyboy knows that I have reiterated that I am not going to sue him but for the sake of clarity in showing him that what he has said are defamatory, they would just jump into it.

Surface to say, it seems to me that those "clones" were not from WP at all, some maybe individuals not related to WP and some pretends to be WP supporters or members, like the last anonymous poster who writes as if he /she is a WP member!

Granted that deception is part and parcel of the "internet", but I think that's cheap shots! ;)

It is interesting for me to see that how such "games" are played. Deception, imposter, rumouring (I am from PAP before? hahaha!) etc etc.

I will see how far these people could go before I dedicate an article on this one! ;)

Goh Meng Seng



IN THE END, HE SHOT HIMSELF IN THE FOOT... HAHAHA!

WP_Boyz said...

I believe Mr Goh did not resign voluntarily. There's more than meet its eye. Wonder who will take over Mr Goh now as WP webmaster, Melvin Tan?

Anonymous said...

Dear Meng Seng,

I'm really sad to see you go and even more disappointed that the CEC did not try to keep you at all!

After all you have done for WP, maintaining their website FOC, this is what you get in return?

I'm very disillusioned with WP and I will quit the party together with you.

Anonymous said...

All these wayang is part of a conspiracy! Meng Seng, we all know who is the mastermind behind this, we will leave together with you!